AN OPEN LETTER
It has come my attention that a concerted effort is being made at various websites to defame and destroy not only my hard-earned reputation as a Christian public figure, but my credibility as a Christian apologist (i.e, a defender of the Christian faith).
• My moral integrity has been criticized.
• My dedication to the purity of the Christian faith has been brought into question.
• My confession of, and subjection to, Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior has been mocked.
• My theology and doctrinal views have been labeled heretical despite evidence to the contrary.
• My ethical standards and Christian lifestyle have been called unbiblical.
This attempt on the part of certain persons associated with so-called “discernment” ministries to slander my good name and reputation via the Internet is an unfortunate result of one thing — i.e., my unwillingness to condemn Saddleback Church pastor, Rick Warren, author of The Purpose Driven Life (synopsis, excerpts, reviews, also see amazon.com).
The assault on my character began when, contrary to the wishes of these self-proclaimed “watchmen” of the church (as they like to be called), I endorsed Rick Warren, then sought to bring correction to those who had been unfairly denouncing him as:
a) a doctrinally aberrant leader in the church;
b) a false teacher who preaches a false Gospel;
c) a biblically unsound advocate of a man-centered, rather than a God-centered, approach to spirituality;
d) a New-Age-inspired proponent of pluralism/ecumenism (i.e., all religions are equally valid and Jesus Christ is NOT the only way of salvation).
I began to make my findings public by way of several online articles, a book titled Rick Warren and the Purpose that Drives Him, and most recently, a heavy blogging presence. Now, in response to my efforts to spread the truth, those who despise Rick Warren have decided to turn their anger/hate/wrath on me. They are using whatever means they have at their disposal to hinder my book sales and discourage Christians from trusting my materials. For instance, Tim Wirth, one of my most vociferous attackers, is seeking to impugn my reliability as an author in his blog article “Is Richard Abanes a reliable source of information?” (This question will be answered toward the end of my open letter.)
THE ATTACKS
Those who have decided to mount their assault against me have resorted to using a wide variety of slanderous statements that in no way represent my doctrinal views, ministry activities, or personal life as a Christian. In addition to their complete misrepresentations of who I am and what I believe, they have gone so far as to make make some accusations that are decidedly mean-spirited (and in some cases, rather bizarre), as the following partial list of accusations show:
• I am “a bully who wants to beat up on every one who exposes his friend RW.”
• I am a propagandist like Hitler’s Josef Goebbels of the Nazi party.
• I am an “excuseoligist rather than a apologist.”
• I have “given up on Faith and given up on what God says in his word” and “embraced a pantheistic worldview!”
• I am a “false teacher.”
• I am “blinded and influenced by a lying spirit” “[under] a strong delusion because of the lying spirit” “There IS a lying spirit that surrounds Rick Warren and it has heavily influenced Richard Abanes.”
• I am spreading “a new form of Christianity that has taken evil form and at its roots is not Jesus Christ or His word.”
• I have been “overcome by a satanic spirit!”
• I am “an unwitting stooge of Satan!”
• I am under condemnation of “evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.”
• I am “a monster.”
• I am “a parroting pop apologist nothing more.”
• My “intent is more monetary than spiritual.”
• I “don’t really believe the Bible at all”
Slander is defined as: 1. Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person’s reputation. 2. A false and malicious statement or report about someone. Slander is also defined as follows: “To engage in defamation orally; spoken words that tend to damage another’s reputation. If defamatory meaning is apparent on the face of the statement, it is said to be slanderous per se. If the defamatory meaning is not self-evident, but arises only from extrinsic facts, the statement is slanderous per quod.” That I am being slandered by such individuals can be easily proven.
EXAMPLE #1: Several of these persons have been spreading the lie that I have gone “soft” on Mormonism and that I am actually seeking to create a doctrinal synthesis between orthodox Christianity and the beliefs embraced by members of The Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints. This accusation is absurd. I have written two major books critical of Mormonism, which according to the Bible, is a false religious system that denies every essential doctrine of the Christian faith. My volumes — One Nation Under Gods: A History of the Mormon Church (synopsis, excerpts, reviews, also see amazon.com) and Inside Today’s Mormonism: Understanding Latter-day Saints in Light of Biblical Truth (synopsis, excerpts, reviews, also see amazon.com) — systematically dismantle and refute every foundational tenet of the Mormon faith. After informing these persons of the truth, they refused to retract their false accusations, and continued spreading their lie.
EXAMPLE #2: It has also been alleged that my entire ministry has become dedicated to defending Rick Warren, rather than defending the Christian faith. This accusation is ludicrous. I have been in full-time Christian ministry of nearly 15 years. During that time, I have written 20 books (from major publishers, NOT self-published through a vanity press) dealing with a wide range of issues from a conservative Christian perspective: racism, near-death experiences, the New Age, Mormonism, numerous cults, the occult, parenting (in relation to video games and children), Easter, the end-times, Eckhart Tolle/Oprah Winfrey, world religions, M. Scott Peck, Harry Potter (and J.K. Rowling), The Da Vinci Code by Dan Brown, and basic Christian doctrine. I have also written extensively on these issues for numerous Christian publications, various websites, and my own Internet home.
With regard to Rick Warren, I have only: 1) produced a short booklet on Warren titled Rick Warren and the Purpose that Drives Him; 2) briefly posted about him on the Internet in mid-2005, after which I wrote/said nothing on him for nearly three years; and 3) wrote detailed responses to people at various blogs from December 28, 2007 – June 10, 2008 (barely five months). Such a minimum amount of time taken out of so many years dedicated to defending the Christian faith hardly supports these kinds of accusations:
I see Richard as being a apologist for Rick Warren and Ricks own purpose driven form of Christianity. This is where most of Richards time is spent on the Internet. Not defending the Christian faith. But defending Rick Warrens faith.
Richard may dispute his being a follower of Rick Warren (of course Abanes will state he is a follower of Jesus Christ) but Richards actions of defending Warren all over the internet primarily instead of the Christian faith shows Richards true intentions. Note what I just said. Abanes defends Rick Warrens faith instead of the Christian faith. This I believe shows Richards true colors.
This individual is painfully ignorant of not only my past work, but also of the countless hours I’ve spent defending the Christian faith on the Internet to Mormons, Wiccans, those in the occult, New Agers, Hindus, Buddhists, and Atheists (i.e., through private chat rooms, emails, message boards, and while playing online video games wherein I can meet all kinds of people who do not know Jesus).
WHY RICK WARREN?
The question might be asked: “Why did you, Richard Abanes, start talking about Warren in the first place?
ANSWER: I started talking about Warren because of the grievously sinful ways that people were attacking him under the guise of “discernment, “standing for truth,” and “apologetics.” For many of these “watchmen” (the same ones who are now attacking me), standing for truth and defending the Christian faith is something they stopped doing long ago. Their “ministry” has become nothing more than an arena for emotional venting, attacking others, being right at the expense of truth, winning a fight, destroying their target of choice, nit-picking, accusing the brethren, slandering others, and dividing the church.
This is NOT the way to do apologetics.
This is NOT discernment.
This is NOT Christ-honoring.
This is NOT biblical.
This is NOT loving.
Because apologetics is near/dear to my heart, I took the time to step in and say, “Please, this must stop. It must stop or in the end, apologetics is going to be destroyed as a valid ministry.”
When it comes to Rick Warren, the issue for me has not been about the man per se, but instead, has been about: truth, discernment, accountability, Christian love, caution, heresy-hunting, godliness, humility, agape, unity, apologetics in general, the nature of true discernment, and unnecessary division in the Body of Christ. To me, Warren is just a catalyst (a lightening rod, if you will), that brings to our attention all of these issues, and puts them on the table to be seen and discussed. And much darkness/sin has been exposed. Nevertheless, those in sin/darkness continue to walk down their path of bearing false witness, unrepentant and defiant, with a conscious that appears to be seared beyond all hope of correction.
MY FAITH
So, for the record, let me be very clear. I fully embrace all of the essential doctrines of the Christian faith that date back to the oldest of doctrinal creeds we possess, particularly The Apostles’ Creed. From that historical creed emerged the following beliefs that I fully accept without reservation and preach/teach through my apologetic writings:
1. human depravity,
2. Christ’s virgin birth,
3. Christ’s sinlessness,
4. Christ’s full deity,
5. Christ’s full humanity,
6. God’s unity,
7. God’s triunity,
8. the necessity of God’s grace in salvation,
9. the necessity of faith in salvation,
10. Christ’s atoning death on the cross for our sins,
11. Christ’s bodily resurrection,
12. Christ’s bodily ascension,
13. Christ’s present High Priestly service, and
14. Christ’s second coming, final judgment, and reign.
In other words, so there will be no question about my faith, I hold to the historic, orthodox, biblical explanations/definitions of the Trinity, the full humanity/deity of Jesus Christ, the miraculous conception of Christ, the inherited sin nature of humanity, the atonement by Christ for fallen humanity via his shed blood on the cross, salvation by grace alone through faith alone, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the eventual return of Jesus (physically/visibly), and the inerrancy/infallibility of the the Bible.
If any of my critics/attackers can prove otherwise from my writings, then I would ask that you please make that information known and back up your accusations with truth. In the absence of any such evidence, I would hope and pray that for the sake of truth and for the sake of unity in the Body of Christ, that you would retract your false statements and cease bearing false witness against me.
So far, not a single piece of documentation has been produced to show that I have in any way drifted from the faith that was once and for all delivered to the saints (Jude 3). In fact, the very opposite can be shown, most forcefully in my newest apologetic work that defends Christianity against the threat being made against it by New Age spiritual teacher, Eckhart Tolle, and his celebrity supporter, Oprah Winfrey (see my book, A New Earth, And Old Deception, which coincidentally, I happened to write during the exact same period of time I was blogging on the Internet about Rick Warren — so much for me only defending the “faith” of Rick Warren, rather than the Christian faith).
WHAT DOES SCRIPTURE SAY?
At this point, we must look to scripture, which tells us that lying will not be tolerated by God. It is an abomination that our Lord God “hates” (Prov. 6:17, 19). We are commanded: “You shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another” (Lev. 19:11). Consider, too, this verse: “A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies ” (Prov. 14:5). After the Proverbs 6:17-19 passage (which mentions “a lying tongue” and “a false witness that speaketh lies”), we then read about another thing God hates: “. . . he that soweth discord among the brethren” (Prov. 6:19). This leads us to the issue of contention/strife/division. (According to the Wycliffe Bible Commentary, “sowing discord” actually means, “Literally, lets loose strife.”)
Divisiveness is something also forbidden by scripture. Paul declared: “But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another” (Gal. 5:15). And again, we read: “For ye are yet carnal: whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and division, are ye not carnal and walk as men?” (1 Cor. 3:3). The destructive nature of division, of course, is that it weakens the house of God (see Mark 3:24-25). As Proverbs 16: 28 says: “A perverse man spreads strife, and a slanderer separates intimate friends.” This leads us to something else that is rampant among too many internet discernment “ministries” — straightforward slander and and bearing false witness against another Christian.
The scriptures regarding bearing false witness and slander are many, even equating a “false witness” with deceit (see Prov. 12:17). Consider, too, the following verses: ”Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor” (Ex. 23:1); “Be not a witness against thy neighbor without cause; and deceive not with thy lips” (Prov. 24:28); “[D]o not love perjury; for all these are what I hate, declares the LORD” (Zech 8:17); “[H]e who spreads slander is a fool” (Prov. 10:18).
MR. WIRTH, AM I A RELIABLE SOURCE OF INFORMATION?
The question has been asked by one of my attackers: “Is Richard Abanes a reliable source of information?”
I do not believe this is a difficult question to answer. Throughout the years I have presented to the Christian community numerous volumes of apologetic materials published by major publishing houses that have been not only well-received, but also recognized as doctrinally sound, informative, and helpful by respected professional apologists, church leaders, pastors, ministry workers, and even the secular media. My resources have been endorsed by:
John MacArthur
Senior Pastor, Grace Community Church
D. James Kennedy (deceased)
Senior Pastor, Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church
Dr. Ron Rhodes
Reasoning from the Scriptures Ministry
Dr. Norman Geisler
Dean, Southern Evangelical Seminary
James Bjornstad
president of Evangelical Ministries to New Religions; and
philosophy professor, Cedarville University
Luke P. Wilson (deceased)
Former Executive Director, Institute for Religious Research
Dr. Gene Edward Veith
Alliance Council Member and Provost and Professor of Literature at Patrick Henry College; and former Executive Director of the Cranach Institute at Concordia Theological Seminary
Dr. Leland Ryken
English Professor, Wheaton College
Marcia Montenegro
founder, Christian Answers for the New Age
Dr. Ronald Enroth
Professor of Sociology at Westmont College
Dr. Alan Gomes
Chair of Department of Theology, Talbot School of Theology
Hank Hanegraaff
President of the Christian Research Institute
Dr. Doug Groothuis
Professor of Philosophy, Denver Seminary
Dr. H. Wayne House
Biblical and Theological Studies, Faith Evangelical Seminary
Sandra Tanner
Founder, Utah Lighthouse Ministry
and many, many others . . .
I have received two awards for my work in the area of apologetics: 1) The Evangelical Press Association’s Higher Goals In Christian Journalism Award; and 2) The Myers Center Award for the Study of Human Rights in North America for my work on racism and racial intolerance in North America. I have also been been a guest speaker on religious issues at various institutions, including the Simon Wiesenthal Center, CalTech University, Mensa, California Baptist University, and Biola University.
Most recently, my new book A New Earth, An Old Deception, which is a point-by-point refutation of New Age spiritual teacher Eckhart Tolle, has been endorsed by Tom Stipe, Senior pastor of Crossroads Church of Denver and by J. Mark Martin, Senior pastor of Calvary Community Church:
“An excellent job researching, reviewing and writing for us an important exposé of this dangerous deception. . . . In the spirit of Paul the Apostle’s warning to ‘take heed lest you fall,’ A New Earth, An Old Deception equips the believer with solid answers for those who may be confused by Tolle’s claims.”
Tom Stipe
Senior Pastor, Crossroads Church of Denver
“Richard Abanes clearly shows the differences between the ‘gospel’ of self and the Gospel of Jesus Christ by dismantling popular New Age teachings point by point. A New Earth, An Old Deception is a much-needed Christian response to deception.”
J. Mark Martin
Calvary Community Church
And so, Mr. Wirth, in response to your question, “Is Richard Abanes a reliable source of information?,” I believe the clear and obvious answer is: YES.
Now, two other questions must be asked: “Is Tim Wirth a reliable source of information?” “Are these other so-called ‘discernment’ ministries reliable sources of information? I believe such questions can be answered just as easily as the first, but in the negative: NO.
THE PROBLEM WITH THE “NEW” ONLINE DISCERNMENT GROUPS
Before the advent of the Internet, persons involved in the area of discernment/apologetics usually entered such ministry under the helpful tutelage of someone who had, through years of experience, gained an understanding of how to properly do apologetics. This was no different than any other field of ministry: e.g., missions, music/worship, church planting/building, counseling, etc. etc. etc.
The reasons are obvious for such a process. A newcomer to a certain field of ministry simply does not know everything there is to know about what they wish to do in service to the Lord. To rush blindly into an area of ministry without understanding that ministry arena could prove injurious to oneself and others. One does not send out someone on a mission to the Amazon jungle for the very first time and put them in charge of the entire ministry team! There is a learning process for all areas of life. It’s a natural process of growth and development — whether in Christian ministry, life itself, or even our own secular careers. Even the disciples walked with Christ for three years before setting off on their world-changing mission.
Also before the Internet, those who wanted to publish/distribute apologetic materials were given a rather limited scope of influence unless: a) they were associated with a respected/donor-supported organization (e.g., the Christian Research Institute, Watchman Fellowship, Utah Lighthouse Ministry); or b) they were published by a major publishing house (e.g., Baker Books, Bethany House, InterVarsity Press, Crossway Books, etc.). The side benefit of such limitations was accountability.
Publishing houses, for example, not only have attorneys who read through manuscripts to check for possible statements of libel/slander, but also professional editors who check an author’s facts, verify the book’s documentation, and assess the clarity/validity of a writer’s arguments/logic/main points. In other words, there are many check-points and safety measures taken by good publishing houses (not all houses are created equal). And when it comes to well-established and reputable discernment ministries such as the Christian Research Institute, there is a research team that works on the issues being discussed — and most, if not all, of them have been trained in the areas of theology, cults, world religions, and apologetics. This, too, works as not only a safety mechanism, but also a system of accountability to other professional apologists.
Now, however, with the arrival of the Internet, anyone who has anything to say about anyone they dislike can say it in any way they want to say it, then publish it on the Internet for all the world to see — no matter how inaccurate, mean-spirited, ungodly, hateful, and false it might be. There is no cost to speak of, except the monthly fee for a website. And those who publish their diatribes against other people under the guise of “discernment” are accountable to virtually no one. There is no third-party to verify the facts behind the allegations made. There are no attorneys to make sure nothing said is libelous or slanderous. Anything goes!
The individuals currently engaged in what I am calling a new mutation of “apologetics” and “discernment” have had no training, no guidance, and no real mentoring to speak of. They are lone wolfs, pardon the pun, who have perhaps listened to a few Walter Martin tapes from 30 years ago and/or read some books by other professional apologists, then got motivated to grab their Bibles, load their ammunition, and go heretic hunting. They are NOT operating out of love, understanding, caution, thoughtful research, a careful analysis of information, or a desire to see unity. The goal is to expose the heretic, dig up the errors, set the traps, find something that can be used to attack — even if it means using half-truths, misinformation, out-of-context quotes, rejection of a person’s overall theological framework, blatant lies, and wild misinterpretations of the words spoken by their target(s) of choice.
And this is why so much utter garbage exists on the Internet; wordy detritus that is falsely passed off as apologetics and discernment. You see none of these “discerners” being published by any major publishing houses. You see none of them writing for major Christian magazines. Instead, because they are not accepted by the legitimate world, they have created for themselves a world of their own where they can say/do anything they want to say/do. They get away with things that would never be tolerated in any legitimate forum. As a result, countless websites have sprung up where the most vile and erroneous slander can be leveled at others with no repercussions.
The noble field of discernment and defending the faith (i.e., apologetics) has been tainted, dare I say poisoned, by misguided zeal, agenda-driven accusations, blind emotionalism, and tragically, sometime pure hatred — all under the guise of righteousness, standing for truth, God. But the truth is that the truth has been completely compromised by these people. And it is not only wrong, but a danger to the Body of Christ — plain and simple.
Another problem is the unwillingness of these individuals to listen to basic facts that conflict with their position. With them, it is always an issue of “Don’t confuse me with the facts.” A typical run of dialogue might go something like this:
Online Critic: You, Richard Abanes, are a lying New Ager who is deceiving others. You want to build a one world religion by blending Christianity with other faiths.
ME: No, I don’t. That’s not true. Jesus is the only way, truth, and life (John 14:6).
Online Critic: You don’t believe that. You’re one of those “new” New Agers who talks a good line, but doesn’t really believe what you say.
ME: What are you talking about? I’ve written a lot against the New Age. But just for the record, Jesus is the ONLY way of salvation. He is the one and only savior. You must repent, accept him by faith as your personal Lord and Savior, in order to be saved by grace. Other religions won’t get you to God.
Online Critic: You deny him by your deeds.
ME: What deeds?
Online Critic: You don’t believe Warren is a heretic.
ME: Wait! What does that have to do with my faith in Jesus Christ? I just disagree with you about Rick Warren based on what I see are some terribly faulty arguments and false statements by you and others.
Online Critic: You attack others. If you were truly walking with the Lord, you’d see where Warren is wrong, and you’d be writing against him instead of against other Christians.
ME: Well, YOU attack Warren! Why is that okay?
Online Critic: Because he’s unbiblical and a heretic.
ME: I disagree. So what? My disagreement has nothing to do with my faith deep and abiding in Christ. And besides, I DO write against false teachings and defend Christianity. In fact, I just finished a whole book titled A New Earth, An Old Deception, which is a response from a Christian perspective to the spiritually dangerous teachings of New Ager Eckhart Tolle. I’ve even made some Internet videos about how Christianity stands in direct contrast to Tolle’s views.
Online Critic: See, that proves you’re deceived.
ME: What does?
Online Critic: You just said you disagree about Rick Warren being a heretic. And you even wrote a book in which you say we need to blend Mormonism and Christianity called Inside Today’s Mormonism.
ME: What? Wait a minute! I was talking about Eckhart Tolle! What about that? And as for Mormonism, I’ve only written books against Mormonism. Inside Today’s Mormonism refutes Mormonism. It doesn’t support it or seek to blend anything Christian with it.
Online Critic: That’s not true.
ME: Yes, it is! Have you even read it? Why don’t you call some ministries to Mormons and just ask them!?
Online Critic: I don’t have to. By supporting Rick Warren, I know exactly what you’re trying to do. If you don’t write against Warren, then you’re compromising and deceiving. You’re not being truthful about what you really believe. It doesn’t matter what you say as long as you support Warren.
ME: Where is THAT in the Bible? I thought my faith is founded on Christ, not some disagreement I might have with you about Rick Warren. I think you’re wrong about Warren and I’ve written material that shows why. So what? Jesus is my Lord and Savior.
Online Critic: You’re deceived. I’ll pray for you. You need to repent.
ME: Of what?
Online Critic: You need to repent of your lies. And I’m not going to talk to you anymore about this.
It is a losing battle. The only correct answer that can be given to these “discerners” is an answer that completely agrees with them down the line on virtually every issue, not just Rick Warren, but nearly everything. Until something is down about these so-called “watchmen,” apologetics on a lay level will continue to spiral downward.
In all of the various areas of ministry I have worked in, I have never found a more unloving, dangerous, judgmental, angry, and disturbed group of people than in the area of apologetics, counter-cult, and discernment. There are SOME good individuals out there. But they are far and few between when compared to the vast majority of people in the arena. Discernment/apologetics has turned from a noble calling into a dark, mean-spirited, hate-filled netherworld of fear-filled, unfriendly, unloving, attack-mode heresy hunters. And it is terribly, terribly tragic. Change MUST occur. Or we are going to tear each other to bits.
My hope and prayer is that God will intervene supernaturally and put an end to the influence of these people on the trusting sheep who are listening to the lies. Of course, God might choose to do otherwise in the same way he chooses to allow various cults to exist. Our Lord has his good reasons for letting certain evils continue. And this might just be one of those things he decides to leave in our midst as a trial — or perhaps as as simple reminder of how we ought NOT to be. To those online discernment ministries (also known as ODMs) now engaged in such activities: “…Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting” (Daniel 5:27).
In Christ,
Richard Abanes
PopCultureMix
I have not intention of getting into an extended exchange with Mr. Abanes.
So I will comment once and leave it at that.
First off you operate on a very deceptive double standard.
You become very upset that valid and needful Discernment Ministries bring to light the very serious and real apostasy and active denial of many of the fundamentals of the Christian Faith by Rick Warren and yourself, and also the very valid and needful bringing to light of yours and Rick Warren’s defence of others who openly adhere to and promote Anti-Christ Ideologies.
You try to call them Slanderers & Divisive “Sinners”, however Mr. Abanes again you use deception in defining them as such. The deception is this: What you define as the “Body od Christ” is not Biblical. The real “Body of Christ” is a spiritual body and a spiritual unity. It is NOT a Visible Body of people who by simply calling themselves “Christian” become part of that real “body of Christ”.
A person is also not part of that real “Body of Christ” simply because they SAY they hold to the fundamentals of the Christian Faith. As you and Rick Warren Do, while at the same time what you do on a daily basis works to dismantle, seriously corrupt, or make “of none affect” those fundamentals of the Christian Faith.
And here is an insight for you: Steering people to or emphasizing a Psychologically or intellect only based “Christian” faith is part of dismantling the Christian Faith.
It does not validate your position to roll out a list of names who support your views. What validates anyones position in regards to whether they are indeed following a true Christian Faith is two things: The adheranc of their beliefs and daily actions to the Word of God AND the Witness of the Holy Spirit.
I will leave you with this passage in the hope that your blind eyes may be opened:
John 3:1-21 There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” ….
[SNIP - poster quoted entire passage, it has been shortened for ease of reading and to cut down on lengthy material that can be read elsewhere: i.e., in one's own Bible or at biblegateway.com]
. . . . to Believe in the Christian sense is not simply an affirmation to a set of principles. Belief in Christianity is an active word. And it is not activated by you! It is activated by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Your actions and words show that you do not have the indwelling of the Holy spirit which is THE Requirement to understand the Spiritual things of God.
If you do not have that indwelling then you are left with what you do and that is fallen fleshly intellectualism just like Nicodemus
God Bless,
John Baker
BAKER: I have not intention of getting into an extended exchange with Mr. Abanes.
RA: Understandable. See my example of classic dialogue with persons involved in online discernment ministries: “You need to repent of your lies. And I’m not going to talk to you anymore about this.”
BAKER: First off you operate on a very deceptive double standard. You become very upset that valid and needful Discernment Ministries bring to light the very serious and real apostasy and active denial of many of the fundamentals of the Christian Faith by Rick Warren and yourself,
RA: Really? Please do provide ANY quotes, statements, announcements, remarks I have made that prove ANY “active denial of many of the fundamentals of the Christian Faith” on my part. You have my above doctrinal statement and you have my books from which to pull information. Please provide my denials of the fundamentals of the Christian faith. Otherwise, I will expect a retraction and apology for the above remark.
BAKER: … and also the very valid and needful bringing to light of yours and Rick Warren’s defense of others who openly adhere to and promote Anti-Christ Ideologies.
RA: Really? Please do provide ANY quotes, statements, announcements, remarks I have made that prove I “openly adhere to and promote Anti-Christ Ideologies.” You have my above doctrinal statement and you have my books from which to pull information. Please provide my adherence to and promotion of Anti-Christ Ideologies. Otherwise, I will expect a retraction and apology for the above remark.
BAKER: You try to call them Slanderers & Divisive “Sinners”, however Mr. Abanes again you use deception in defining them as such. The deception is this: What you define as the “Body of Christ” is not Biblical. The real “Body of Christ” is a spiritual body and a spiritual unity. It is NOT a Visible Body of people who by simply calling themselves “Christian” become part of that real “body of Christ”.
RA: Interesting. I have not defined the Body of Christ to you or anyone else in this blog. But for the record, it is so intensely ironic that I just happen to actually define the Body of Christ EXACTLY as you define it: “The real ‘Body of Christ’ is a spiritual body and a spiritual unity. It is NOT a Visible Body of people who by simply calling themselves ‘Christian’ become part of that real ‘body of Christ.’”
So, there is my definition of Body of Christ. Where am I in error?
And, since we’re talking about the Body of Christ which, as you will agree, is the true “Church.” Let me give you my definition of it from my book Inside Today’s Mormonism, where I state:
There, again, is my definition of Body of Christ. Where am I in error?
BAKER: A person is also not part of that real “Body of Christ” simply because they SAY they hold to the fundamentals of the Christian Faith. As you and Rick Warren Do, while at the same time what you do on a daily basis works to dismantle, seriously corrupt, or make “of none affect” those fundamentals of the Christian Faith.
RA: Really? So, now you are basically saying in a not-so-subtle fashion that I am NOT a Christian, even though I confess/profess to be one. You prove not only my major points exactly, but perfectly follow along with the classic ODM interaction I have offered above. I thank you. And you, sir, BTW, have just redefined salvation by grace alone through faith alone. You have perverted/corrupted salvation by grace alone by adding to it the “works” of your own subjective ideas regarding what is, and what is not, appropriate ways of thinking on such issues as: evangelism methods, how to organize a church, agreements with you on who is heretical, and how we are to relate to unbelievers in the world (all issues related to Rick Warren). If anyone is close to heresy, it is you! How ironic.
BAKER: And here is an insight for you: Steering people to or emphasizing a Psychologically or intellect only based “Christian” faith is part of dismantling the Christian Faith.
RA: Again, you have added to salvation by grace alone through faith alone. You are saying that if anyone disagrees with YOU about the complex issue of psychology as a legitimate field of study and application, then they are dismantling the entire Christian faith. Where is that in the Bible? All kinds of people agree and disagree on psychology on many levels and for many reasons. And yet, anyone who sees things different from you is instantly dismantling the Christian faith and is worthy of being labeled a non-Christian. That’s extraordinary.
BAKER: It does not validate your position to roll out a list of names who support your views.
RA: The question was asked: “Is Richard Abanes a reliable source of information?” I provided information that would indicate the answer to that question is a resounding yes. I didn’t ask the question. So, I would ask that you not criticize me for rolling out “a list of names who support your views.” Would you have rather me not answered the question?
BAKER: What validates anyones position in regards to whether they are indeed following a true Christian Faith is two things: The adherence of their beliefs and daily actions to the Word of God AND the Witness of the Holy Spirit.
RA: Ahhhhh, I see. And I take it that your proof of my beliefs and daily actions NOT adhering to the Word of God is simply the fact that I disagree with you about Rick Warren being a heretic. Interesting. Again, I ask: Where is that in the Bible. My beliefs (see above) do indeed adhere to the Word of God. And my daily actions also adhere to the Word of God. You have reduced your assessment of my entire faith in Christ to one thing — whether or not I agree with you about Rick Warren. That, my friend, is not biblical. And it seriously compromises the doctrine of salvation by grace alone through faith alone, which you CLAIM to uphold.
BAKER: I will leave you with this passage in the hope that your blind eyes may be opened: John 3:1-21 . . . . to Believe in the Christian sense is not simply an affirmation to a set of principles.
RA: Agreed. But to believe is ALSO not an acceptance of everything YOU say I must accept in the area of non-doctrinal views in order to prove to you that I am truly born again. I have accepted Christ as my personal Lord and Savior. And I have demonstrated the validity of that faith repeatedly not only in my defense of the Christian faith as a respected apologist, but also in other areas of ministry including: missions, music/worship, and loving my neighbor.
You have produced NOTHING to cast my faith into a false light — except my unwillingness to agree with you about Rick Warren. That is tragic. What you have done is not only excise me from the Body of Christ, you have kicked out of the church everyone who feels as I do! That’s a LOT of people including countless pastors, Christian radio talk show hosts, other apologists, conservative seminary professors, and Christians ministry workers far and wide.
BAKER: Belief in Christianity is an active word. And it is not activated by you! It is activated by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Your actions and words show that you do not have the indwelling of the Holy spirit which is THE Requirement to understand the Spiritual things of God. If you do not have that indwelling then you are left with what you do and that is fallen fleshly intellectualism just like Nicodemus….
RA: You have indeed cast me outside the church, along with millions and millions of others — and all because I/we do not see Rick Warren as a heretic. That is a very telling judgment for you to make, my friend. I would not want to be you standing before the Lord.
You have just illustrated all of my points/arguments perfectly.
Richard Abanes
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UPDATE – Interestingly, rather than respond here to my stated doctrinal views or my requests for documentation to prove his accusations against me, Mr. Baker (see first comment post) has gone to another website run by the aforementioned Time Wirth, and at that blog has simply declared once more:
My initial observations have been proven yet again by Mr. Baker and his fellow accuser of the brethren, Tim Wirth (who, very strangely, stated that I “didn’t address anything” he said in his attack article “Is Richard Abanes a reliable source of information?” This, despite the fact that an entire section in my response post is dedicated to answering the very question he posed by his article’s title! Odd. The blindness continues.
Excellent post, Richard!
Rich,
Good response,
The problem is that if you take them out of the hate business they have no business at all.
Rich
Its an uphill battle with these guys. I appreciate your response and the way you support what you say. I’m looking forward to meeting you next Saturday.
Wow!…..great article Richard, and that John Baker…….. it was uncanny how he came on, and made your points for you! and might I add in a very confusing manner, difficult to read, not to mention understand.
Mr Baker if you read this could you PLEASE state some facts, quotes, eyewitness accounts. radio or television interviews….ANYTHING? I mean I am just a humble Calvary Chapel Pastor and if you would like me to understand your wisdom please point me to one thing that would support it, thank you…….Jeff Stewart
keep up the good work.
I guess this makes me a heretic, too:
http://mondokblog.blogspot.com/2006/12/warren-recycle.html
Richard, God has already used the pressures of the slanders for good.
This article is one of your best and needed to be written and now it is.
Even Mr. Baker’s vague rebuke without relationship served it’s purpose to make your point.
TY all. Please do what you can in your spheres of influence to combat this kind of hatred, division, sin, and destruction withing the body of Christ before more sheep are wounded.
In Christ,
Richard Abanes
Usually I make all my points in one long post, I will try to break them up here.
I would like to address the point of internet/untested discerners and their role in marginalizing what it is to embrace, live, teach and defend truth in the mind of the everyday layman in the body of Christ.
Equipping laymen while not rising above them and living amongst them is the God given goal for those called to a ministry of teaching and equipping the saints.
I have seen and noticed the effect that these ministries have had upon the members of the body of Christ over time.
I see defined for us in Scripture foundational these foundational goals for the disciple of Christ over the span of a God given and redeemed life:
Progressive, demonstrated maturity in righteousness and love; in outlook, character and action in while integrated and interacting with a local community of other saints:
A progressive and assured understanding of the gospel coupled with a steadfast courage to proclaim the gospel in God’s mission field.
These goals have been either undermined, marginalized or replaced with a hyper spirtiual eliitism measured by who you warn against and withdraw from.
They treat the warnings in Scripture of real and possible apostasy as some sort of mysterious super staph infection the way the medical community is treating the onset of the physical staph infection pandemnic.
I have had many engagements with such lay people and local elders and it is heart breaking.
They have set aside courageous living in the presence of God and amongst His people with a cowardice that masquerades as spiritual superiority.
This influence may not have embraced the heretical doctrine concerning the person of Christ of the 1st -3rd Century Gnostics; but they have re-introduced the quasi-spiritual/intellectual elitism that the Gnostics perpetuated.
They have undermined the confident but not arrogant assurance that practicing disciples of Christ can enjoy for the glory of God as a by product of their faith.
They have replaced it with a cleverly disguised fear.
Evango-Gnostics no more.
Yet I believe God will allow it to continue and be used for good by Him in spite of the real damage to “speaking the truth” in love that has been done. That damage does not have to be permanent , even though it may seem substantial today.
Just read my long supposedly short post.
Yes, I can see that I need to own up and start my own blog.
[...] The Dombrowskis of Lighthouse Trails have just proven the point I’ve been trying to make for years: “No one is safe — The witch hunt is on.” For more information on what is happening with the so-called discernment ministries, please read my article “Slanderers, Accusers, and Divisive Sinners.” [...]
[...] alluded to this whole situation in a previous blog I titled Slanderers, Accusers, and Divisive Sinners, posted at my blog on June 18, 2008. My hope was to set the record straight in that blog post and [...]